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The End of Hereditary Religion

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2008-09-12 10:42

totanaca
San Diego, CA

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The end of hereditary religion is an international initiative to uphold the rights of children to be free of childhood religious indoctrination.

Humanity must drastically reform religions meant for primitive tribal people. Although there are worthy features in most modern religions and beautiful followers living lives of unselfish devotion to the less fortunate, religions as they are presently practiced basically divide people into opposing camps. Each camp thinks they are somehow privileged to have ultimate truths. They don't have such truths and because they encourage submissiveness and obedience in their followers they create devoted believers that are prey to misguided clerics with unsavory designs for power and influence.

Families are the key to ending hereditary religion. Learn more here:

http://endhereditaryreligion.blogspot.com

or on Facebook, join

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10129512247

2008-09-12 14:35

RIGOR
Wentzville, MO

Posts: 14

Ewww... more left-wingers trying to tell me how to live my life and raise my children..... NO THANK YOU. This is just laughable and stupid.

2008-09-13 03:27

totanaca
San Diego, CA

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Your post was incomplete. What exactly is laughable? And could you please reply with a more temperate answer. I really want to learn what the objections are to ending the religious indoctrination of children. After all, if a child is allowed to mature before making decisions about whether to include religion in their life, the religions will still be there and they will be better informed. This is a decision for each individual to make on their own.

You would not force your child to marry someone you picked out. Why force them to take up your religion?

2008-09-13 09:28

RIGOR
Wentzville, MO

Posts: 14

Actually, my son was crying in the midst of my posting, but I would be happy to explain why this "effort" is offensive, tyrannical, and a form of slavery. This cause is telling people how to live their personal lives. It's no different than telling people how to punish children for doing wrong. It's no different from trying to tell people not to eat meat. It's no different from telling people that their cultures are wrong. Would you tell this to American Indians? Would you go as far to make pilgrimages to wild tribes in the Outback to make sure the children there aren't falling "prey" to the gods they worship and are told about since birth?

At the same token, I think this left-winged agenda of yours is poison for the United States. Am I going to join some silly cause to say we shouldn't speak politically around children until they can go out and decide for themselves? Of course not. This is America, and we have freedoms. We want our children to know what we know, and in many cases hope they follow our customs, traditions, and religion. You're a perfect example of being bred into your life choices. You're in California and seem to be a rabid liberal. By chance? By choice? Are your parents liberal? (Most likely, I guess)   It's called influence. ... and guess what.... that's ok. It hasn't stopped you from being a free thinker, but you belittle those who teach religion to children that they are somehow mental slaves that can't think for themselves at any point in their lives.

In this country, we are given freedom of religion. If my religion tells me to teach children and spread the word, but some "unholier than thou" comes to me and says I can't? That's offensive to my beliefs and I condemn that.   I do understand however, that my children, as do I, have freedom to take these beliefs or not at all. Sure, I went to church, but when I went off to school, I questioned these beliefs and actually stopped believing for a while. But that was my choice.

Again, I do not agree with what you're saying, and I don't mean to make anything personal, but that's my choice. I defend your right to say your feelings, and I disagree with them whole-heartedly and with all my being. I can't force others my teachings of personal behavior (If I wanted to) and you can not on me either.

To me it's seems like quite the uphill battle for you as the war on drugs, homosexuality, and energy policies to certain groups. People believe what they believe and want others to follow suit, but isn't going to happen, try as all might.

Invasion of the personal life in all others can be a losing battle. Try as we all do... I guess we'll just keep trying.

Honestly, I went to those websites and read them. I just find it funny how those without religion seem the most preachy and religious.. well... religiously anti-religious. :)

2008-09-14 04:01

totanaca
San Diego, CA

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So I guess you think that religion does not tell people how to live their lives.

2008-09-14 07:28

RIGOR
Wentzville, MO

Posts: 14

My point is this: Your anti-religious views are the opposite of that: religious. You're just preaching a different gospel. You're intolerant of teaching children because you want religion to go away. You think by treating religion like a rated "R" movie, that barely anyone would select a religion at all if they only go by what they see and can research/disect each religion when they reach some "self-choosing" age.

As for religion teaching people how to live... Come on, of course it does. But in a different way than you're preaching. You preach ignorance and a "fantasy book burning of knowledge" until some age. I believe the lessons taught are indeed great lessons... Not only the "life's lessons" which I know could be taught outside a religious atmosphere. I don't know if you're a parent or not, but it's a parent's choice how they want their child to grow up. That's the freedom of molding a child to a certain degree.   I don't know if you grew up in a religious home, but I grew up in a Christian household and through my church, I attended Jewish synagogues, Indian temples, and other forms of worship. I realized there was more out there, and I was taught that it was ok. If people believe their child won't have the great afterlife because they didn't get annointed and believe in a messiah, that YOU have some kind of grounds to take that away?

Since I'm surmising you're really far left, I think you may want sex education for kids and rubbers handed out in 1st grade. You all are just the "other side" plain and simple. You think kids should know some things and be leary of others. You believe that you are right, and religious are wrong. Are you seeing how YOU just pick and choose? How can you take those rights of religion away from a child? You can't, and it will never happen as much as you want.   Just like I know it's wrong to do drugs, it's out there, and people will do it no matter how much people tell them how it kills them and ruins lives.

Just remember: You're anti-religion as very religious, intrusive, and even more judgemental than those religions you're condemning.   Your dogma is the opposite, but it's still "mind control" (as your group calls it) but just in the ways YOU want. You're group even goes as far as to think they are more evolved because they aren't "religious".. Wow... talk about judgemental... I don't think Catholics are THAT bad.

One could easily say you're group is full of intolerant, hate-mongers.

If you have a kid and want to mold him/her in ways you see fit. Go ahead. In reality, Christiany, Muslim, Indian, and any other religion does not affect you. Only your "anti-religion, religion" does.

A kids life doen't truly become his own until after he moves away from the parents. To what degree, I guess, we could argue till the cows come home. But, that will never change.

2008-09-14 08:14

RIGOR
Wentzville, MO

Posts: 14

In addition, I read on that site that people's argument against your dogma is biological right? The site also claims that these people aren't fit to be parents and teaching... Wow... I guess your group should parent the world! The more I read, the more ridiculous and hypocritical this group is. I'm glad I'm an adult and can choose not to follow this Nazi-like doctrine. The liberal "New World Order" needs to be stopped.

I love it when a group points the finger of intolerance, and then intolerantly judges right after... This group needs to figure out their logic... Big time. If one was truly against religion, they wouldn't form a group/church and just live and let live.

2008-09-14 09:46

Picka
Colorado Springs, CO

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RIGOR, do you believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old?

2008-09-14 23:55

totanaca
San Diego, CA

Posts: 11
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Rigor,
I have no idea what you are trying to say other than you intend to insult me. I would like to have a civil conversation. Is this what you want also? Please try to keep your responses to a single paragraph on a single topic and keep them civil.

Thanks

2008-09-16 20:20

RIGOR
Wentzville, MO

Posts: 14

Gosh, dude... Nothing was personal against you. I was commenting on something I find horrible. If you're really THAT sensitive because someone strongly disagrees with you, maybe you shouldn't be on the internet. It gets way more dangerous out there.

And Picka... Please.... just... please....

2008-09-16 21:09

Get Real!
Charleston, SC

Posts: 27

This is the same intolerance that the religious are accused of but in a different form. What is the difference in one family believing that religion should be taught to their children and another family who thinks that it should not be? Personally, I am for individual freedom. I don't need you or anyone else telling me how to raise my children. Nor will I try to tell you how to raise yours - assuming you are not abusing them. When did freedom of religion become freedom from religion?

2008-09-16 22:07

Picka
Colorado Springs, CO

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I have no problems about how anyone raises their children just as long as they don't try to indoctrinate their religious faith on me or my family. Sarah Palin wants to teach creationism in science classes. Part of the creationism agenda of course is that the earth is only 6,000 years old. Those that dismiss evolution in favor of intelligent design or creationism have been so indoctrinated into their faith that any discourse with them on the subject is next to impossible. So for all the Sarah Palin fans, ask yourself why you are so supportive. Is it because of her faith and support of teaching creationism in public schools, or because she is so strongly anti-abortion even in the case of rape or incest, or because she doesn't believe in equal rights for gays and lesbians. I'll respect those beliefs as your family beliefs but not as government policy that translates those beliefs as government laws forced onto me. Freedom is indeed the freedom to choose...the freedom of choice for women and the freedom to believe or not believe. And it does start at a very young age.

2008-09-16 22:47

Get Real!
Charleston, SC

Posts: 27

It seems that we agree then. People should have the right to teach their own children whatever they believe. That's great! We can save the creationism/evolution debate for another thread. :) Personally, I am a Christian. My children are Chiristians as well - in fact, they are more so than I am. While some choose to teach only thier specific beliefs, I have taught (and continue to teach) my children a number of religious beliefs. I think the best way to go is to teach many different perspectives and to let the people decide for themselves which is correct. While I am a believer in God and his creation, I do not cling to unreasonable beliefs. Those that group all creationists as extreme are simply wrong. They use this distorted association to make a point. It would be much more helpful if we could have an honest debate without distortion. Don't you think?

2008-09-19 12:24

totanaca
San Diego, CA

Posts: 18

Indoctrinating children in dogma and superstition when they are vulnerable and don't understand is wrong and cannot be supported any longer. The Supreme Court case that gave parents the legal right to instruct children in the "tenets and practices of their religion is not based on morality or mores, in fact it flies in the face of the usual practice of basing law. The best the Supreme Court could come up with was custom.

We have reached a more advanced stage in our understanding of the rights of children and the USA is out of step with the developed democracies of Europe which are all for the most part amending their laws to account for the new sensitivity to the rights of children as persons.

The idea the Christian fascists in this country are pushing that children are property is lamentably archaic. Parents do not own children. The very idea should horrify anyone who hears it. We have a word for one person owning another person: slavery.

2009-03-24 13:00

Shawn12790
Halethorpe, MD

Posts: 3

The fact is people have rights over their children. I don't know how you were personally raised, but I was raised in a Catholic family, and I don't personally associate with Catholicism in its entirety. No one is forced to believe anything, that is the beauty of our political system. The only things parents can force is for a child to be exposed to their beliefs. They only have this right for 18 years in most jurisdictions and then the individual makes his own choices. I am fully aware that many people attempt to shove religion down the throats of children and non-believers, and I dislike these people. Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Most Christians believe in these words and would not judge a person based on belief or force belief upon someone. However, these people do exist, but placing restriction on them places restriction on honest, respectful believers. That is unconstitutional. Us normal Christians hate being associated with these people just as much as atheists do, believe me.

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